Should I stay or should I go?

Have you ever wondered if you have made the right career choices? Two professionals in the middle of their careers – one working in academia, the other in industry – discussed their career paths with each other to decide if the grass really is greener on the other side.

Ana Jorge Sobrido is a UKRI Future Leaders Fellow and professor of sustainable materials at the School of Engineering and Materials Science at Queen Mary University, London.

Fawzi Abou-Chahine is a director at FI Group, a financial services consultancy, and board advisor for a security startup. Below is an extract of their conversation.

Should I leave academia?

Fawzi: On the surface we have different careers, but we are part of the same ecosystem. You research new technologies. You may collaborate with startups to develop them commercially. Those may then partner with corporates to scale-up the manufacture. And I secure funding for enterprises across that innovation spectrum. Ana, what drew you to science in the first place?

Ana: I’ve always been passionate about discovery, how new materials come to exist, how they are formed. My PhD researched new materials for the sake of it with no obvious immediate applications, that later exhibited excellent catalytic and magnetic properties, which, as you say, may eventually be commercialised. How about you?

F: At school, I found colour changes from chemical reactions fascinating, and I still do. It led me to pursue a PhD in photochemistry. I think that satisfied my childhood curiosity, but I probably only realised it after my subsequent postdoc in a similar field. Why did you want to stay in academia?

A: I actually worked in industry after my PhD for a year to see what it was like, but I really didn’t like the rigid 9-to-6 schedule, the perceived lack of trust, the obvious hierarchy and corporate environment. Whereas in academia, I have freedom to research what excites me and the flexibility to organise my time as I wish – I can visit the gym to destress from work or rearrange schedules for childcare duties, when needed.

F: I understand that view of industry, but it is outdated, especially following Covid. Businesses give employees much more flexibility on working hours and location. I have colleagues who visit the gym during defined breaks, provided they make up lost time elsewhere. I do agree that hierarchy is prevalent in industry but that can also protect employees. For me, the minor loss in flexibility is worth the significant increase in salary. In the UK, first year postdocs may earn £25–£40k, whereas a PhD’s first job in business may be worth £30–50k, usually with a 5% bonus.

A: Salary is not a motivation to seek a career in academia. I know it’s not perfect, but I like the interaction with the people, inspiring the younger generation, teaching and job security.

F: You mean job security for those on permanent positions, rather than fixed term contracts? Doesn’t sound so secure to me.

A: You’re right. My postdoc journey lasted five years, with several fixed term contracts. That made it challenging to get a residential tenancy, and as a foreigner I had no guarantor, so that was a difficult time. But these experiences made me more resilient. Now I try to create positive change by supporting junior researchers to apply for permanent academic positions.

F: Job security is an economic barrier that drives academics away, especially women and ethnic minorities. I mean, I can probably find 500 permanent roles in London based on my PhD skills, but I don’t think I could find 50 suitable academic roles across Europe. So, I left academia for pragmatic reasons.

A: What was your first job outside academia?

F: I worked in technical sales. I had to market scientific equipment like spectrometers to appeal to both the technical experts using them, but also to the non-expert managers who made the purchasing decisions.

A: Would you go back to academia?

F: Ha! I’ve given up my dream of winning a Nobel prize. I do miss the amazing research and enthusiastic learners. But to go back to a bureaucratic, slow-paced, lower salaried environment with fewer opportunities? I doubt it.

A: Academia is a vocational job. You need to love it for what it is – the teaching, the researching, the learning. Much like being a nurse or teacher, the roles are not always well paid but you create essential impact in society.

F: True. Would you ever leave academia?

A: I would consider broadening my career and moving sideways to, say, managing the technology in a spin-out from my research group.

Should I diversify my skills?

F: Have you always studied materials for energy applications?

A: Yes, but my career has spanned broad thin-film and functional materials for fuel cells, electric batteries and hydrogen storage. I have also started collaborating to study green energy’s impact on society, so I am learning new things about sociology.

F: Energy storage, and batteries particularly, have received major government funding so far, but funding policies can change.

A: Correct, China dominates electric vehicle production now with major lithium sources located there. So, most successful research groups, and individuals, tend to broaden their capabilities and skills.

F: I agree. Industry must adapt quickly, to changes in regulation, legislation or even new technology, like artificial intelligence. Learning new skills is essential just to stay level with the competition. This is why businesses invest so much in upskilling employees.

A: Most in-house professional development training run by universities is free. There are short courses on presenting talks for PhDs, through to full leadership training for early and senior career academics. I strongly encourage my team to develop themselves by building their own network, attending conferences, visiting institutions or applying for funding for small outreach projects. I have also allocated a portion of my fellowship budget for upskilling my team.

F: A good way to diversify skills and take control of your career is through freelance work or a ‘side-hustle’, is that something you are allowed to do in academia?

A: Senior academics are generally allowed between 20–40 days of consultancy per year. I am paid for external viva examinations, and I know of others who are expert witnesses for trials or funding reviewers. For junior academics, acceptable side jobs include lab demonstrations or private tutoring. The flexible academic lifestyle helps you arrange meetings around your schedule.

F: In industry, we’re seeing many junior candidates reference their side-hustles in job interviews, like tutoring or video-making. I think this adds depth to a candidate’s character, although employers will check those activities pose no risk of reputational damage. Senior hires tend to have some form of alternative employment too, from minor consultancy through to directorships in other companies. Your employment contract will state what alternative employment is permissible. In some cases, this can be negotiated, provided there is no conflict of interest.

Should I prioritise career or children?

A: Choosing between your career and children is very personal. I have a 4-year-old now, but for a long time I wasn’t sure what I wanted. I prioritised my career and I worked hard to build it, so why shouldn’t I be reluctant to give that up? Now I have both a beautiful family and fulfilling career, but managing both can be challenging at times.

F: Did you have any fears?

A: Absolutely, there is always a fear of your career stopping after a career break, whether it is because of children or something else. There is also the increased challenge of being in the dark about the latest research, or missing out on funding. I applied for many grants before I went on maternity leave, and I won three grants during my absence. This meant that when I returned a year later, I had something to go back to and I wasn’t in a difficult position financially.

F: What happens to those who are going on leave but are unsuccessful in applying for grants?

A: Well in principle, your department will support you in applying for grants, whether you are going on leave or not. A more teaching-focused role may be possible if your research doesn’t progress for whatever reason.

F: I had a different choice to make regarding childcare and careers. I left a toxic job to work freelance. It was a calculated risk, I was probably only generating 25% of my salaried income, but freelance work gave me so much mental space to figure out my next steps. My wife became pregnant a few months later, so I had to go back to traditional employment. I don’t think I would go back to a full freelance role as a parent without an established client pipeline.

If you could go back, would you make different career choices?

A: I’d like to think no. I tried industry after my PhD, but after that, industry was never an option I contemplated. I love learning new things and inspiring others. And sure, I know I could earn a lot more elsewhere, but I am happy where I am. I’m open to exploring new opportunities in the future, so I am not so rigid, as long as I can keep my schedule flexibility and research freedom. That is important.

F: Likewise. Being happy at work is just as important an element of a career, as the path itself. I don’t think we talk about that so much. I’ve generally been very happy with the new skills I’ve continued to learn, the network I’ve created, and professional development I have, which I don’t think would have happened in academia to the same extent.